I Am That Content Creator Podcast

Ep#76 Unlocking Content Success by Embracing Unique Strengths

• Kristen Werner & Mia Steel • Season 1 • Episode 76

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In this conversation, Mia shares her transformative journey from being a paramedic to becoming a successful content creator and entrepreneur. 

She discusses the challenges she faced, including her struggles with ADHD, and how she discovered her passion for creating user-generated content (UGC). 

Mia highlights the importance of community, income diversification, and building authentic relationships with brands. 

She also provides insights into crafting high-converting UGC ads and the evolving landscape of content creation, emphasising the need for adaptability in a rapidly changing digital world. In this conversation, Mia (interviewed by Xanthe) delve into the intricacies of User-Generated Content (UGC) creation, discussing key metrics like ROAS, the importance of learning from ad performance, and the evolving landscape of UGC in relation to AI. 

They emphasise the significance of building a personal brand, securing retainer clients, and managing burnout in the creative process. The discussion also touches on the value of community and mentorship in the UGC space, as well as future plans for the Hive Hub Collective.



[UGC, content creation, entrepreneurship, ADHD, Hive Hub Collective, income diversification, audience engagement, digital marketing, social media, personal branding, UGC, ROAS, metrics, ad performance, AI, personal brand, retainer clients, burnout, income strategies, community]


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Speaker 1:

Okay, you're in for a treaty mctreat today. Guys, we have Mia is chatting to one of our members, xanthi. Now Xanthi has a podcast that UGC Mum. She is one of our incredible members inside the Hive Hub Collective, but she actually invited Mia onto her podcast to have a chat. Now, what was really cool about this is, as somebody that got to edit this podcast, I got to listen to the whole thing in and out, and I know you are going to absolutely love it. So if you are starting your UGC journey, or you are on your UGC journey, or you were just gosh damn curious about what UGC is user-generated content and you want to hear more about Mia's story which I still, to this day, love to hear because it blows my mind how far she's come this is a really, really beautiful conversation. So sit back, enjoy and we'll see you later. Bye, let's go.

Speaker 2:

Are you ready to master the art of creating content that converts?

Speaker 3:

Hey, I'm Mia, a mom of two who went from being a burnt out ambo to six-figure content creator in less than a year, all while navigating a late ADHD diagnosis.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Kristen, also a mom of two and a former corporate branding queen turned entrepreneur. My dyslexic brain sees marketing very differently and that's my superpower, and together we're showing women like you, how to master video marketing and create content that generates income, Whether you're just starting out or ready to scale. We are breaking down everything from landing brand deals to building your own empire.

Speaker 3:

Welcome to. I Am that Content Creator podcast where we turn scroll-stopping content into serious income. No filters, no fluff, just real strategies from two neurodivergent mums who get it. So let's turn your phone into a video marketing machine, and let's go, let's go.

Speaker 4:

Hello, mamma Mia, how are you doing today? Good, how are you, zant.

Speaker 3:

It's actually really nice to catch up with you properly.

Speaker 4:

I know I get you all to myself for the first time ever. Yeah, thank you so much for being so generous with your time. No worries, first time ever. Yeah, thank you so much for being so generous with your time. No worries, I can't wait to unpack your crazy story with regards to UGC. So I thought I really wanted to start with you telling the audience who was Mia before your journey and who is Mia now.

Speaker 3:

I like that question because it's a bit of a stark difference between who I was and who I am now. Before I started creating content online, I was a very reserved, shy, introverted, anxiety-ridden person. I mean, I'm still pretty introverted now, but I would have fallen over if you had told me that I was posting on TikTok and doing all this stuff that I'm doing now. And I think I just had to get to a point where I was at breaking point with my job and my anxiety and everything that was going on in my life, that I just had to make a huge change. And the person that I am now is, yeah, I love creating content, I love putting myself out there, I love, you know, recording podcasts and doing all that sort of stuff, and I just feel like a more freer version of myself, and I think you probably find this too.

Speaker 3:

Creating content. It's like a self-discovery journey, creating content, starting your own business and before I did that, I was just yeah, I was a paramedic, a nurse. I went to work every day, I did the thing, my creativity was zero, but I was a pretty broken person on the inside.

Speaker 4:

Why do you think that being a paramedic, you know, in the grind broke you? The reason I'm asking is because I have other friends who are ambos. They thrive, they love their job. Why do you think you particularly weren't coping?

Speaker 3:

I'm a bit of a mixed bag, as you know. I've been recently well, it's been a year now. I've been diagnosed with ADHD and I think being a paramedic really suited that risk-taking, adrenaline-seeking aspects of me. Like it's not a boring job, you're always on edge, you're always of me. It's not a boring job, you're always on edge, you're always out there facing pretty crazy stuff. But the burnout was really bad for me.

Speaker 3:

So with the ADHD, sometimes you can't show up, You've got to drag yourself out of bed and with the shift work and the early starts and the 14-hour night shifts, when I brought kids into it and I had two babies at home, I was just broken physically and mentally. Not so much the type of job it is like. It is interesting and pretty fun and the people that I worked with were amazing. But I think, because I didn't know I had ADHD, I thought I was just, you know, a shit person, lazy, can't stick to a job. You know I'm always searching for more. So, yeah, I think that's sort of why it didn't work out long term for me.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, oh, my gosh, mia. I feel that in my bones because I have ADHD too and I remember before I knew I had ADHD, adhd, four panic attacks a day because I just kept asking myself why am I like this pull? Your shit together, xanthi, like why can't you do this simple thing?

Speaker 4:

yeah why can't you just be normal and yeah, that's like everyone else, everyone else yeah now like I don't know about you, mia, but now I really I'm just like I wouldn't have it any other way. I really appreciate that I'm a hot mess because it makes me who I am today, with all the things I'm fighting against it.

Speaker 3:

Now it's like I know that this is who I am and why I am the way I am. So why would I fight against it which I was definitely doing back in the day? Because I got into nursing and paramedic science and stuff, because I thought it was a good job, when really I should have been in a creative job working for myself.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. So, mia, talk to me now about the crazy world you're living in now and what you do and what you're all about now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so my journey started off, as you know, with UGC. I stumbled across it on TikTok, randomly, saw someone talking about it, and I was desperate not to go back to work with the babies at home. So I just tried it and I don't know what it was inside me or what happened, but it just kind of took off and I got. I don't know if it was lucky or I was just so desperate to make something work that I just put my all into it and it kind of just snowballed into this big thing of creating content and getting paid for it and I was able to leave my job and travel in the caravan with the family. And then it snowballed into affiliate marketing and digital products.

Speaker 3:

And now we're running the Hive Hub Collective, our community, which is full of, you know, amazing women like you trying to do the same thing, like get your creativity work from home, around your family, design the life that you want through content. And so I mean my journey. It's been about three years now to get to this point, but it's been a bloody good one, and now that I have had a taste of freedom and entrepreneurship and making money this way, I'm completely unemployable. I would never go back to a normal job because I just I know what's possible now.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, totally. And for anyone who's not really up to speed with what the Hype Hub Collective is the thing that you built can you just explain what that is in a nutshell, if you can? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So I was, you know, in my own world doing UGC and affiliate marketing, and this random chick slid into my DMs, which is Kristen Werner, my business partner now, and she saw something in me. She's been in brand and marketing for many, many years and she's a TikToker as well. And she saw something in me and a gap in the market. And she just put it to me and said do you want to start something together? And I just had a good gut feeling, because I'd been following her for a little while on TikTok, and I just said yes, and we started a membership, a community, and it's just grown from strength to strength. We hit six figures in our first 12 months. And we're complete strangers we still haven't met in person yet, but basically we empower and coach women to create content and get paid with their content. So it's pretty fun.

Speaker 4:

Incredible. I do do actually remember I don't think I've shared this with either of you, actually, but I remember when I first stumbled across kristin on tiktok and I I thought, holy shit, this woman is. I don't want anyone else to find her, I want her to myself because she's she's just a firecracker, yeah she's got a charisma on on screen, doesn't she?

Speaker 4:

she just yeah and her ideas as well. I feel like, because I feel like I can relate to you quite a lot, mia, I feel like we're quite similar in the fact that you know adhd and um introverted, and I feel like mia is kind of the yin to the yang, yeah, of our personalities, so I just just really magnetized towards her because she has everything that I need, everything that I lack. She kind of fills with her energy.

Speaker 3:

She brings that out in me as well, like when she first said, oh, let's start a podcast, I was like, oh God, really, I don't know if people want to listen to me talk for an hour, but it's that thing. You just almost need someone another creator online or some coach to just bring it out of you and inspire you. And that's what we hope that we do inside the membership too, because we're just attracting so many women who are like us and who think like us, who want the same thing, so it's pretty fun.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's beautiful. So, mia, I just wanted to ask you about so you're running your membership, but I know that you're also. You're still doing UGC, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're still in the trenches doing UGC. So tell me what that looks like for you now that you've been doing it for three years, you know, are you charging more than you were and are you being more choosy with what you're taking on?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so it's a bit of a progression from diving headfirst into UGC and just trying to make as much money as you can replace your wage Like that was my goal when I first started. So I went hard and I sort of got to this point where I was hitting a 10K month and I couldn't believe it. But it was a lot of work, a lot of content and a lot of back and forth with many brands at the same time. So I started to learn that okay, if I want this to be a long-term gig, I need to be smart about it. I need to sort of do some things that are going to make it more sustainable in the long run. So I started incorporating other things like affiliate marketing and digital products into the work.

Speaker 3:

So I had another income coming in on the side while I did the UGC, and as I created more content and worked with more brands and my portfolio sort of built up, the brands would start coming to me and so I didn't have to pitch as much. I didn't really pitch too much in the beginning either, but I think that was because three years ago UGC wasn't that big of a thing yet, so the brands were pretty easy to find you when they're searching UGC creator online. So I was pretty lucky in that regard. But I sort of just diversified my income and now I'm at the point where I can be picky. I've increased my rates over time and brands will come into my inbox and I'll have a really good think about whether or not I want to work with them, whereas before I was like, yeah, sweet, I'll do that, and so I'm probably only doing maybe two gigs a month at the moment because we're running the business and got a few other things going on.

Speaker 3:

But I like to do it that way because there's not so much pressure and you're not so rushed and trying to find all these jobs all the time, and I have a really good relationship with a lot of brands. So I go back to brands and maintain relationships, so it's really easy to go back and work for them again, which is what we encourage our students to encourage our students to do, as well as just maintain those long-term relationships. Because brands, you know they need content all the time and if your content performed well, building that relationship is going to make your life a lot easier when it comes to getting repeat work. So I spread everything out and you know, when you get to that year, one year, two, year, three, you can increase your rates and, and you know, do a bit more with your content yeah, um, and I really want to dive a bit more into income diversification, because I feel like that's an area where you you, you've really shone.

Speaker 4:

So can you say to any ugc creators out there who are kind of feeling that they want to branch out a bit and bolster their income? I mean, we've just had, you know, the TikTok got banned for 24 hours for God's sakes. I feel like everyone's feeling a little bit shaken up after that and I think more and more of us want to diversify our income. So can you talk about what people need to think about when they're doing that and potential avenues that they could explore to do it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So when I look back on my journey, the very first thing that I did was when I was building my audience and you know lots of people build audiences in different niches. It doesn't have to be just the UGC. I'm a UGC creator niche. I found that a lot of people I was attracting a lot of other people who wanted to do UGC and they were always in my DMs asking me all these questions and I was spending a lot of time kind of mentoring and talking to people in the background about it for free.

Speaker 3:

And I just figured, look, I think Stan's store came into my life and I'm like, oh, what is Stan's store? It looks awesome. You can sell digital products. Wow, maybe I'll just compile all of my knowledge that I've learned over the last few months and put it in a guide and sell it for $5 or whatever it was. And I just started doing that and people were buying it. I'm like, holy shit, okay, this is great, this is good.

Speaker 3:

Little income on the side that's kind of helping me not have to do so many UGC jobs that I'm burnt out. So it sort of just started, you know low ticket digital products and moved into higher ticket affiliate offers and sort of a natural progression. But I think for me it was a lot of testing, a lot of speaking to people wondering what their struggles were, testing my own things like what did I want to talk about? What content did I want to create? What did I want to sell? Learning all of the fundamentals about freebies and digital products and funnels and all the rest of it. So it's a progression over time, but I almost think it's a bit of a natural progression. Most UGC creators that I see online have some sort of freebie or affiliate link in their bio or guide or what have you. So it's almost like it goes hand in hand. You're creating all this content anyway, you're building an audience anyway. Why not monetize it in different ways? Yeah?

Speaker 4:

for sure, and so you're talking a lot about testing there. How can people use their audience to test what's going to work for them?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So a lot of it is engagement. What are they asking you in your DMs? With your content, don't be afraid to post something random and see if it, you know, evokes a response with some people Like entrepreneurship is one big science experiment.

Speaker 3:

You just got to keep testing and trying and pivoting and don't feel like you're a failure if you don't exactly know your direct path straight away. But it's that building an audience and a community and understanding them through your comments and DMs, and maybe you'll post a story. Hey guys, are you interested in this? If I tried building this for you, you get heaps of yeses. Okay, maybe I'll do this and we talk about this in our membership as well as backing the idea before you go and spend a lot of time building it, and that's a big mistake that I used to make before I came into this creative world.

Speaker 3:

I had other businesses that I tried. I've got that entrepreneurial blood and I would spend weeks and months building these things and then I would go put it on Instagram and wonder why no one would buy it. So you know, you've got to build that audience, you've got to understand them, you've got to solve a pain point for someone, and that's why we love UGC because you're building that confidence, you're understanding what kind of content works well and what content converts, and by doing that and by getting more confident through your content, you're going to build a community and an audience. And then you just have to like it's social media. You have to be social. You just have to like it's social media. You have to be social, you have to interact and understand. You know what does my audience actually need from me or want from me?

Speaker 4:

um, rather than building it and then finding no one wanted that yeah and mia, I feel like you're pretty good at building audiences and you know you've done, you've. You've run a few different accounts, haven't you? On tiktok and instagram? Um, what, what do you think you're doing?

Speaker 3:

that's special, that you know, built to captivate people somehow yeah, I mean, I think, when I think about it, every single tiktok account that I've had, which is three main ones my ugc one, uh, the one that I've got now for affiliate marketing and the Hive and an ADHD one and for all three accounts I have documented a journey. So I think people kind of like that I relate to her or I want to do what she's doing. I'm going to follow this journey and see what happens and I find teaching really awkward for me. It's not my human design or what have you to just get up and teach a heap of people. I like to say bring them on a journey like I'm doing this and this is what's working and this is what's not working, and kind of passively teach people through what I'm doing.

Speaker 3:

And I think that has a relatability sense with my audience. They can relate to me more than being told this is what you should have to do, this is what you need to do. This is, you know, it's more, I don't know like a passive way of building an audience, teaching them something, but also, yeah, being more relatable. Relatable and I think that's why I've sort of grown that audience and I've also kind of, in a way, discovered over time that I hate the word niche and niching down because my brain just does not want to do that. But the UGC account did well because it was just about UGC. Yeah, the account did really well because it's just about ADHD. Same with the affiliate marketing and the minute you sort of talk to people about a few different things and it doesn't make sense, it kind of drops off. So you've got to be really conscious of calling people out and building that community with one or two things that they can relate with yeah, so you're on TikTok and Instagram, aren't you?

Speaker 4:

Why is that? Why are you doing both?

Speaker 3:

Well, I'm predominantly on TikTok with my three accounts Instagram I've got an Instagram account that's just kind of like my portfolio. I've just dumped a few UGC videos there to send to brands if they want a link. But the one that I've got now, I mean we've got the Hive Hub Collective one which is a bit of a testing ground to see how we can both me and Kristen, both create content to build an audience there. But I really think that having a personal brand is a fundamental aspect to building a business. People want to know what the founders are doing, the person behind the brand, not so much the business. So I mean, I don't go hard on Instagram. I don't enjoy it as much there. I'm a bit of a loosey-goosey, not highly polished type content creator. So I'll find TikTok a lot better for me and I get a lot more reach. But I do understand that you sort of like TikTok could be taken away any second. You've got to diversify and put your content, you know, somewhere else as well.

Speaker 4:

What are your thoughts on? So I know that you've done a bit of a mix of both of these things. So you know how some creators will go and hire a studio and get some really professional shots done of them and use that, you know, to do have a really highly curated, like Instagram profile, and then other creators will just be more raw and both of its personal brand. Where do you sit with all of that? It's?

Speaker 3:

funny. You ask that because I have a Instagram reel in my draft section that I have not posted yet of me in one of those studios. It's all white, I've got my jacket on and shiny pants and just pretending to do work on my computer and getting all that B-roll that I absolutely hated doing at the time because I was just like, oh my God, this is so weird and so embarrassing and there's like people walking past and there's a couple other creators there and I've got it in my drafts and the text on screen is this is fake. It is not me, I am not working on my computer, it I. I just can't relate with that type of content. I don't like creating it.

Speaker 3:

I just thought that I had to do this studio thing to get some beautiful B-roll for Instagram. But it's just not me and that's with your content. You just have to create content that you're going to be able to create for a long period of time and enjoy creating. Otherwise you're going to give up. I'm not going to go to a studio all the time and get that stuff. So I had this yeah, it's in my drafts and I just wanted it to be a message to other creators that you don't have to do this kind of stuff. To make it work, I've built multiple six figures in my Grundy's in the caravan, so it really it really just depends on what type of content that you like creating.

Speaker 4:

I love that message, mia, because I feel like all too often in this space, everyone's just screaming at you what you should be doing, you should be doing this, you should be doing that, you should hire a studio, and it's just like whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, what if I don't want to? Yeah. What about me. And what I like? Yeah. And if you're doing something that's like pushing shit uphill, you're just going to give up, right?

Speaker 3:

And I think and me and Kristen talk about this all the time all the Instagram gurus teaching you how to grow on Instagram, it kind of it almost makes you not create as much as you would if you didn't watch that stuff and you didn't, you know. So we try not to watch it and you know, the big Instagram gurus that are teaching you how to grow on Instagram usually have a big account because they're teaching people how to grow on Instagram. Usually have a big account because they're teaching people how to grow on Instagram. So for us, and definitely me and I'm proof that you don't have to follow the rules and do everything perfectly to make a solid income with your content.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think it's a really good reminder of okay, cool followers is nice, but do they actually like you, you do they actually trust you?

Speaker 3:

and that's why it is so good too, because brands don't actually want the polished stuff. They want the real, they want the relatable, they want the mums with the messy hair waking up and going oh my god, I found this new makeup and it's amazing because it takes me two seconds. They don't want this influencer in a studio saying, you know so it. It's. One of the reasons why I think UGC was perfect for me is because I could just do it in the caravan. I could do it, you know, in the kitchen with the kids running around in the background. Yeah, Totally.

Speaker 4:

And what do you think, mia about? Obviously, it's just such a low barrier to entry. So there's so many creators springing up you know every second, what do you think about the potentiality of UGC becoming too saturated?

Speaker 3:

Well, three years ago when I started, people were talking about it being too saturated. Then as well, definitely in the US. But the thing is, every niche you could say is oversaturated, but a lot of UGC creators drop off. They find it's not for them, they give up or they go on to bigger and better things. It almost feels like it's saturated because you're in that algorithm, so you're seeing lots of other creators, but you think about it. You know 80% of the country wouldn't even know what a UGC creator is or what UGC is so and there's that many brands that need content constantly. One ad, you know, might do them for a month and then they need another one. And you think of how many brands globally. It's never going to be saturated and you know, I think creators need to get smarter to stand out, especially with AI and all these changes coming in, like keeping up with it and, you know, being smart about how you do it to be in the space for a long time. But yeah, I don't think it's ever going to be too saturated.

Speaker 4:

How can we be smart about it, Mia?

Speaker 3:

We can be smart about it by learning or becoming aware of what's happening in the space with AI and learning teaching yourself. You know there's AI. What do you call? Them? Avatars that are doing ads. I've seen quite a few on YouTube ads. I've actually seen one on TV. I'm like that's AI. That's definitely AI. Yeah, you can tell. Yeah, so it's coming. I think I saw Meta released. I think I posted it in the Facebook group. I think I saw Meta released. I think I posted it in the Facebook group.

Speaker 3:

Meta said that they're going to start making it compulsory for you to put an AI-generated tag on anything that's AI-generated, which is great for us creators and UGC creators. I know, for me, when I see AI ads, I'm like ew, no, you've just lost my trust there. I'm not buying that. So that's good for us in a way that you know we'll still have that human. You know relatability type thing and I think people get sick of seeing ai avatars and want real people. But you think about all the creators who are learning about ai and using these tools to make their scripts better and all that sort of stuff. You know they're going to be ahead of you.

Speaker 3:

So if you don't keep up with it. You know you might fall behind a little bit, and I look at AI in this space as brilliant, because I can now go and say to a brand do you want me to write all your scripts for you? Do you want me to be your creative? You know, director, Do you want me to do all your voiceovers for all of your ads? And you know you can clone your voice and get scripts in a second. If you know what UGC scripts do well and you know you have an agent that you've trained, or you know you can provide these brands, who are super, super busy with all this other stuff, with extra services that beforehand, you know, we might not have thought about yeah, I think it's definitely a sign of the times, isn't it?

Speaker 4:

because I feel like with any job, you have to be able to pivot these days because everything's just changing so quickly. You know, I've got a friend who is a cinematographer and he has been for like 20 years and for the first, you know, he's just got a friend who is a cinematographer and he has been for like 20 years and for the first, you know, he's just got a new baby and for the first time in a really long time he's hardly getting any work because AI is replacing his job. So he's having to pivot right now and he's got a really high paying job that he's been doing for years. So I think it's not just our industry and we're so lucky to be early adopters in UGC because we are it's so new, yeah, so if we can just keep that in mind and know that, you know we're actually ahead of everyone else and just be agile.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and if these avatars do become, you know, a household thing like, well, maybe you could learn how to create them and create the script and put it all together, because that might be, you know, the next thing where creators can flourish and make a lot of money from is actually building them.

Speaker 4:

Jump on it, guys. Yeah, so also a lot of people have been talking about UGC is dead and employee generated content is where it's at now. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I remember a couple of years ago there were people saying UGC is dead as well. I mean, content is content. Everyone needs content. Not every brand is going to have the means to employ someone in the warehouse and create TikToks. All day. I have seen a lot of jobs on Seek who are advertising for TikTok content creators to, you know, be employed by them. So I think brands are realizing that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, having a content creator as an employee is pretty important these days, but I don't think UGC creators will die off. There's no, I know. For me, I'm already a bit sick of watching the content of the chicks doing orders in the warehouse. Like there's only so much you can do and if you want your brand to gain trust with people, like, obviously having a face to the brand is great for organic as well, but having different people review your products is always going to be important. I think there's always going to be a need for, you know, ugc creators and I think it's sort of like ads. You could say that TV ads are dead because there's social media, but they still.

Speaker 3:

They're still doing them yeah it's all content, it's all marketing, it's all advertising. So I'm not worried it's interesting.

Speaker 4:

I have actually seen on tv that they're doing ugc style ads on tv, which is pretty interesting to see. Yeah, just, you know like still still just really aspirational people on there, like it's not. Yeah, they've got a bit of work to do on there. I think they need more authentic looking people, but yeah, it's kind of like UGC style. So I wanted to ask you so, mia, what do you think currently is sort of the winning formula for highly converting UGC ads?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so it hasn't really changed since I've started. I still create my ads pretty much the same as I did in the beginning, and I've had a lot of ads run for nine to 12 months. And it's the good old formula a hook, everyone needs a hook. You got to hook them in. They're not going to see what the product is if you can't hook them in in that first three seconds. And I'll talk to you about some metrics that are important to understand as well. And I'll talk to you about some metrics that are important to understand as well.

Speaker 3:

There's always going to be a problem. You know products that sell well solutions to problems. People buy solutions. So, outlining the problem, try, and you know, bring your story into it, or a story of some type about the problem and what problem you are having. And then it's really important to insert the solution pretty early on, because if you drag out the problem too long, people don't stay on ads for very long. Then they'll swipe before you even get to the solution. So bring that solution in.

Speaker 3:

And then social proof testimonials is really important when you're creating an ad that needs to have a direct response. People are seeing the ad and buying directly from that ad. Whereas all your organic stuff, you know you've got time to nurture them and to do other things. But for UGC, you know you've got to prove that it works. There's social proof. And then your call to action People need to be told what to do. Sometimes it seems a little bit weird for us because you know you click the link and you buy it, but sometimes people need to be told. So, having a call to action so, and that formula you know has worked. I haven't had any brands come back to me and say no, change it. Obviously there's other styles of UGC, like unboxings and get ready with me, but you've sort of got to incorporate that formula into everything to get a direct sale.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, yeah, um, and in terms of the metrics that you just sort of dangled the carrot about, explain what you're talking about there yeah, I'll grab up some notes because there's some numbers that you can actually go back to ask the brand get your results from the ads that you've done with them. Because if you can put that on your portfolio and you've had a really good ad, they're like well, she knows what she's doing, she's had good results, pretty confident that you know I'm happy to employ this person. So I'll just try and find here we go so, like we spoke before, the hook rate. So in Facebook ads manager, you know they've got all the backend metrics that they can have a look at and the hook rate is a really important one because that's how well you're able to hook the audience in. So an average hook rate is about 25% and so a good hook rate is over 30%. So if you can go to a brand and say, hey, what was my hook rate on that ad that I sent you, and they said 45%, sweet, that's really good. I'm putting that in my portfolio that I average 40% of my hook rates. Then there's a hold rate as well.

Speaker 3:

So how long can you sort of hold that person on your video? For Pretty low numbers. Average is about two to 3%, but then a good is five to 15%. So again you ask the brand what was my hold rate? I was fifteen percent. Great, I'm going to put that in my portfolio as well.

Speaker 3:

And then you can start to see the type of ads that do well, like oh, that hook was really good, I can use that again in a similar way on another ad. And then also your video average play time, so how long they actually play the video, which is really important to understand because it's like that hook, If you don't hook them in really quickly, they only stay on average for three to five seconds. So if you can get a really good watch time so the benchmarks you sort of want around 10 seconds range about 10, 10 to 20 seconds. So if you can hold them longer, you're going to get them towards the end where they see the solution, see the call to action. So if you can get those metrics from the brand, you can charge more because it's proof that your videos work work well row as as well.

Speaker 3:

that's another big one too. What was the ROAS on this ad? So return on ad spend. Yes, anything over sort of three to four ROAS is good. We get that five to six ROAS on our launches. So you know it's a good indication that the content or the ad has worked really well for them and that's really valuable.

Speaker 4:

And so all these metrics they're just finding in their meta dashboard, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's actually one that's called hook rate in there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yep, yep In the charts. So write down hook rate, hold rate, play time and ROAS and just say to the brand do you mind giving me those metrics? And obviously if they're not good you wouldn't put them on your portfolio, but it's a good learning experience to actually understand. Okay, that ad didn't really work that well.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You understand why.

Speaker 4:

Yes, I'm doing that, mia. I think I'm going to set up like an email sequence, like maybe a month after I've submitted a video and asked for those four things. Hopefully someone's going to come back to me with some good numbers.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and it also shows to the brand that you know what you're talking about, you're interested in improving and you know they might work with you again and say look that hook rate. It was only 20%. I've got another video that I did and the hook rate was 50%. Do you want me to try something similar and we can do it again or something? And that's how you're going to get return customers and repeat jobs too.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, actually that's reminded me something. So I wanted to ask you what your thoughts on this are. So I had one time I had a customer email me. They'd already started running the ad and they emailed me maybe four days after they started running it saying, oh, the ad was a flop. Can you just rejig a few things? What are your thoughts on that? I did. I did rejig a few things because obviously I don't want any of my ads to be a flop. Yeah, but what would you have done in that scenario?

Speaker 3:

I mean, that's where your contract comes in handy, because you can say look, if you want me to do some revisions, I'm going to charge for that, because that's my time and money and all the rest of it. And it's also a good opportunity before that happens is to do your packages. So how about I do three alternative hooks $50 each. It's just you changing out the hook and that way they can test a few different creators to see which one works. But yeah, I mean it's ads. It's a big testing game. It's all one test. So you're going to have ads that flop. We've got ads that flop when we're doing launches as well. So it happens. But it's a good learning experience.

Speaker 3:

But just don't let the brands kind of walk over you and get you to do work just because you know, and usually ads will take a little bit longer than a week to get that data back and, you know, discover whether a good or a flop. So yeah, it's all learning.

Speaker 4:

But yeah, that's true actually, Mia, because the ads generally take a week to go into the learning to learn the algorithm. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And you could get the numbers back from them and say, just out of curiosity, what was the hook rate, and maybe that's where it went wrong. And then you change the hook. Yes for sure.

Speaker 4:

So, mia, where do you see UGC going in the future? We've spoken about AI and we've spoken about you know the formula kind of staying true throughout. What kind of things have you been seeing that you think, okay, that's going to get like a?

Speaker 3:

lot, I mean, apart from AI, which is pretty huge. I'm interested to see where that goes with the avatars and whatnot. But it's kind of like marketing Everything. There's fundamentals that just work and that have been in marketing for many, many, many years. Content creation is not going anywhere. I think it will be harder to stand out the more creators that come on board, so perhaps new creators might struggle a little bit to, you know, stand out, but brands need content all the time. The formula works yes, ai will come into it, but I can't see anything huge changing in the near future. Haven't seen anything. That has just blown my mind and thought, shit, I'm not going to be in a job soon, even though AI is pretty huge and pretty scary. But it's also exciting and it also opens up new opportunities. But I think, yeah, brands are always going to need content. Content creators will never die. I think, yeah, what do you think? I don't think that there's anything that I'm immediately worried about anyway, yeah, no, I completely agree with you.

Speaker 4:

I think it's only really going to get better, especially for us who have jumped on it now. I think the way that we get jobs potentially, I think it's going to become a lot more formalized. So you know, things like K site yeah, I'm I'm excited about kite site I, but I think there's going to be a lot more things like that rather than like oh, a nice little tidy inbound um coming into my inbox yeah, that's true, and maybe ai automated systems that will help you get jobs or, you know, yeah, lots of platforms coming out.

Speaker 3:

yeah, yeah, that's true, yeah.

Speaker 4:

So, on that, mia, what have you found is the best way to get UGC jobs?

Speaker 3:

For me it's just creating a shitload of content and building that personal brand and attracting them to you. Pitching can take a lot of time and you know, know you might pitch 20 and only hear back from one, so it's not a super effective way to do it. But that personal brand is so important and you may as well be building it anyway, because you might choose to pivot at any point. So building that that brand is yeah, is where it's at, and you know there's nothing better than having brands come to you, because then you feel a bit more they actually want me. I can charge my worth and yeah and you know that takes time.

Speaker 3:

Building a brand, a personal brand, takes time and in the meantime, you know I used to get a lot of jobs through Twitter. It's still got a pretty big UGC community over there. I think it's called X, now Upwork Dataflow. You know there's lots of these platforms, Facebook groups as well. But yeah, if you can stand out in any way and try and attract brands, it's going to make your life a lot easier.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I definitely feel like you're the organic queen. I think you've built all your businesses on organic content, right? Yeah, pretty much, but it reminds me. So you know, I had a conversation with Kelly Bright you know, another Hive member last week on the podcast and it just really does all come down to what you feel comfortable with and how you enjoy approaching it, because you know, in Kelly's case, she doesn't have time for it and she doesn't enjoy as much building her personal brand and creating the content, and so she yeah, she prefers to pitch. She really likes pitching a little crazy person.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, brands that you absolutely love. And on that point, when we were traveling around Australia in our caravan, I scored a job with a brand that was 20 videos a month. So I didn't really have to do many other jobs because I was just working with him for months and that was it, and I used to batch 10 videos on one day, 10 videos on another day, and then I had the rest of the month to do nothing. Having those retainer clients is really helpful if you're busy, got another job, kids, all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 4:

I feel like retainer clients is like the holy grail of a UGC creator's journey. Have you got any tips for anyone who's really trying to get a retainer client, like how?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, I was basically the face of their TikTok account, which is a lot to hold on your shoulders and it can if you don't really love the product. It can get a little bit repetitive, creating the same kind of content and coming up with all these ideas, because it is like a post a day or what have you. But going back to brands that you've already worked with, it's just like if you don't do it, you're just leaving money on the table, not building those relationships, and just put it to them Say I've got this idea for all these concepts, do you want to have a talk about it? And I'm happy to do five videos a month, 10 videos a month, and just put ideas on the table. All they can say is no.

Speaker 3:

And Tracy, who is in our community as well, she's got some really awesome retainer clients that she's been with for ages and that money is funding her business that she's building now with her fitness app, and you don't have to worry too much about chasing brands. So go back to the ones you've already worked with, put it on the table. You know, use AI tools to come up with concepts and scripts that might prick their interest and go oh, that's a really good idea, like maybe we should should do that.

Speaker 4:

I love that, because it just gives you breathing space, doesn't it? And speaking of so, I mean this shit gets hard, right it's it's not for the the week of heart. So what's your advice for when you're just like I'm not cut out for this? I'm gonna throw the towel in. Done what? What do you do? Yeah?

Speaker 3:

yeah, and look, we've all been there. Like there's the thing with ugc I think a lot of new people don't realize is that it's a legitimate business. You're a professional. There's admin, there's tax, there's invoicing. There's all that shit that you gotta do in the background, which is what KiteSite is trying to help creators with. Like all the back-end shit like find processes and systems that will make your life easier. And now with AI, it's going to be so helpful because you know things are going to come out all the time. Now that will help Hire a VA. If you've got some good money and you know we've hired VAs for our business too Sometimes you think, oh, I can't afford a VA, but then you'll think, well, can I afford not to?

Speaker 3:

If she does all the pitching and all of the emails and editing and all that stuff, then I have more time to actually make more money. So that's another thing putting systems in place and perhaps outsourcing an editor or what have you going on Fiverr, finding someone to edit your videos for you, things that take the pressure off. And diversifying with digital products, because you can burn out really easily and I found having ADHD as well is I'd have three boxes sitting on the table. Like I need to do that content, I'll do it tomorrow.

Speaker 4:

I'll do it tomorrow Winking at you. They're sitting there winking, aren't they like hello?

Speaker 3:

and the brand's like ah, you got that content. You're like ash, like it piles up and you can get really, you know, overwhelmed and exhausted. So piles up and you can get, really, you know, overwhelmed and exhausted. So, yeah, I think you just got to be smart about it. Um, and you know, I've gone through phases where I haven't done UGC for a few months because I'm just like I just can't, can't be bothered dealing with brands, and that's where that diversification comes in. You're like thank god, I've got that.

Speaker 4:

You know, stan, affiliate commission coming in every month, or whatever it is, yeah, that's why I love UGC, because you know, for a brain like mine and energy levels like mine, like it's not I'm not a constant 10 out of 10. So it's nice being able to dip in and dip out, yeah.

Speaker 3:

You've got the skill for life. Now you can do it gung-ho, and or not. Do it once a month, yeah, save up for a holiday, whatever.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah. And speaking of gung-ho, actually you mentioned that you, you know you've had your 10K month. How did that go? Because that's a lot right.

Speaker 3:

It's a lot, right, it's a lot, it is. For me, it was not sustainable as a UGC creator to hit 10k months every month, absolutely not. I was just, yeah, absolutely exhausted, um, and I, I, that's basically when I went to affiliate marketing, because I was just like I'm burnt, I'm burnt out, I can't, I don't think I can work with another brand right now. So, yeah, it's a lot, still trading time for money. You're a service, so that's where that digital product affiliate stuff comes in, because it's just not sustainable. There are a few big UGC creators that I've seen in the US that seem to have big months all the time, but I would assume that they would have an editor, have a VA, have other help. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be really hard yeah, or they're a robot.

Speaker 4:

I think, yeah, there's no other way. Yeah, yeah. And I think on the VA thing you were saying people can have that block thinking. I don't know if I've got enough money for a VA, but the way that I see it, I have hired a VA before it. It was an absolute horror story, which I did actually spill the tea on my podcast. She fucked me over man really. But I will get another one. I'm just I will be hiring slow, but I. The way that I felt about it was I was paying her $400 a month and I was like, if she can get me one UGC job, I've paid. Like she's paid for, that's done and I can tax deduct paying her as well. So I think they're worth their weight in gold if you can get a good one.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's the hard part too. We've had a couple of mew-mew ones as well, so it's hard to get a good one, but when you do, you've just gotta, yeah, work with them and it can literally change your business. We do a lot of james wedmore stuff. He's sort of our main guru and coach and he's like you literally can't afford, you can't scale your business if you don't hire someone to help, basically because you end up doing all the little nitty gritty things that take up time and then all of a sudden you haven't created any content for a week because you've been doing all this other stuff. So, yeah, scary paying someone, but if you want to grow and scale, it's yeah, you got to do it eventually I think james wedmore was actually the one that gave me the idea.

Speaker 4:

I think I was listening to one of his podcasts and he was saying, like, as soon as you can, outsource everything you can, because otherwise you're not going to grow. Yep, basically, yeah, yeah, um, are there any? So who are your favorite gurus? Who you just think have the most sage advice?

Speaker 3:

yeah, james is one of them. He's. This is a thing on social media it can be so easy to overconsume and listen to too many different gurus and you're like my God, he said this and she said that, and what should I do? So we've really honed in and, just you know, kristen's been with James for a few years now. He's our go-to. What he says goes Every time. We do what he says, it works, so he's our go-to. What he says goes Every time we do what he says it works, so he's our favourite one. And obviously, you know, I like Alex Hamosi and a few other ones that you know fly around the shop. But you've got to find someone who you can relate with, who you know, james, he goes on the woo-woo side as well, which we love, and you've just got to relate to them and just pick one and stick with them, because it's too being otherwise.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, james, he is woo, isn't he? He's actually best friends with manifestation bay. Yeah, yeah, so that says it all, doesn't it? But it's funny that you said that, mia, because I recently had that thought. I'm just like, oh my god, my brain is. There's just too many opinions going around. So I actually put a note on my phone. I think I called it like guru focus, and I've put three people's names down just to remind myself, like the minute I'm sitting there listening to someone blabbing on about what they think. Just stop, because there's only three people that I'm trying to focus on at the moment because I think that they give the best advice.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and that's the thing with short form content. Just stop, because there's only three people that I'm trying to focus on at the moment, because I think that they give the best advice.

Speaker 3:

Yeah another thing with short form content it can be really overwhelming because you're scrolling all the time. But a podcast, you're sitting down with one person and you're listening to them for half an hour or 40 minutes and it can be much more refreshing and you actually learn something.

Speaker 3:

Um, I also like boss babe she's a mom and she gets it, she you know. And jenna kutcher there's a few that are great. I like their podcasts but, yeah, finding one that just you know you resonate with their processes and their systems. Yeah, stick with one agreed that.

Speaker 4:

That's actually why I started this podcast, because I just feel like social media is a screaming match, like everyone's intentions aren't pure on there. They just want to get your attention and you know, especially with UGC, everyone's trying to sell this glamorous life so that you buy their digital product. But like I, genuinely I want to help mums. Like I want mums to know what they're getting in for, yeah, yeah, like I want moms to know what they're getting in for yeah, yeah, and we love it too in that kind of inspiring and empowering older women in their 40s and beyond.

Speaker 3:

That don't have to be this 20-something-year-old spruiking, you know that lifestyle of beauty products and aesthetic videos and lying on a boat and all that sort of stuff. It doesn't have to be like that. And you know, podcasts are great because you're building that trust funnel rather than, like you said, you just like trying to get attention on social media. Long form content is really great for building that trust and actually talking to people on a more personal level and they feel like they get to know you better because you just you know having a conversation, you're not doing a hook and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's real life. So what's coming up for the Hive Hub Collective?

Speaker 3:

Mia yeah well, 2025, we've got. You know, our word of the year is focus. I'm talking about that. Good luck with that one. Yeah, last year, I swear to God, um kristen's got adhd too, but last year was a year of testing and building and pivoting and all these things and just going wild in our multi-passionate um selves whiplash, yeah, yeah, basically. But we've realized that again, listening to james, you need to do focus on one thing and repeat it again and again and again, no matter how boring it gets, you need to repeat it. So we're doing lots of launches the same launch. You know, this is the thing with UGC you get really good at creating ads and then you can start running ads for your own business, your own product. So we're running ads and we're doing live webinars. You know, building our business that way.

Speaker 3:

We've always you know we've done a podcast every week, for you know the last year that we're still doing that, and you know we're building little AI tools here and there that are going to help our students. But it's getting your messaging right and focusing on one thing and doing it over and over and giving it enough time to test and prove if it's, you know, working or not before you move on to the next thing.

Speaker 4:

So, yeah, so less but better. Yeah, that's it. That's the best. You're amazing. Thank you so much, mia for your time.

Speaker 1:

I'm really excited to share this yeah.

Speaker 3:

I'll wait to. We also I mean, this is another focus thing where we want to do an in-person event for, you know, all of our ugc creators and members, you know, hopefully that will happen, because I think that's another thing that's heading in that direction is in-person things in person people want connection yeah yeah, and that's why I'm afraid of ai avatars, because people just want real people really do yeah, actually on that, I I have a story.

Speaker 4:

Um, I don't know, have you? I forgot the name of the film, but there's this amazing film about is a true story. It's about a man who kayaks from new zealand across the tasman oh yeah, I think I remember yeah. I'm starting to get goosebumps because it's just, oh, it's so it's a documentary.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's a real, real man who he's got a tiny, cute little boy, um, who's about three or four, and his wife and they see him off at the beach and they're like good luck, and I'm pretty sure it's from Australia to New Zealand. He doesn't make it. He makes it like he's 50 miles offshore and his kayak he capsizes in this crazy storm and he has an EPIRB on him. So an EPIRB is a personal locating beacon. So all you have to do is I had one on my boat you have to pull the cord and it will send a message to Marine Rescue. They'll come and get you this guy.

Speaker 4:

He had his EPIRB on him and he had a radio and he was dying in the cold waters of New Zealand. And did he set his EPIRB off? No, he called Marine Rescue and said my kayak's sinking, I need someone to help me. And the reception wasn't good enough and they were like we need to know where you are, you must trigger your EPIRB. We won't be able to find you just from this call. And he was like somebody save me, my kayak's sinking. And then it goes all fuzzy and he's obviously gone. So that really hit me because it just shows you know, the human needs a connection. You know when you're in the pits of despair all you want is another person.

Speaker 4:

You don't think about technology, you don't think about pulling your EPIRB. So true, yeah, very extreme example, but I feel like that's what you're trying to say.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, people just want connection, and I think that's why you know gc works as well, because people just want to see real people who they can relate with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's another thing why we love community and you know if, if your listeners are doing ugc themselves it's so important to find a community of people that you can talk to, who you can relate with, who just get it, because it can be pretty lonely online if you don't so tell me, is there going to be wine at this in-person event?

Speaker 3:

absolutely soft I'll be there yep lots of wine sign me up. Lots of neurodivergent women training content. What could possibly go wrong? No, we can't wait. And yeah, I mean that's the thing. And even like you, I feel like I know all of the community members on a personal level, like I just I've never met any of you in person, but you know, you just form those connections and that's what.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so much fun yeah, like there's, there's gonna be no need to break the ice, like I feel, like we're just all you know that's what I love about our community at the hive, like everyone's like a little bit weird and quite sweary and inappropriate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we're attracted to our people.

Speaker 4:

So I have a feeling that the in-person event is going to go off. It's going to be loose.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's going to be loose. I'm going to start planning it now. Yay, thanks, mia. Have a great day, thanks for having me. I love this. Yeah, well done on the podcast.

Speaker 4:

Oh, thank you, you were my inspiration.

Speaker 3:

And you know what that's for your listeners too. You find a medium, content, medium that you love doing.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You'll create more.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, like I can't wait, like when I have a podcast interview booked in, I'm like, yes, yeah, like when I have a podcast interview booked in.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, yes, yeah, well, it's nice, maybe we'll get you on the house. Thank you, chat, good chat. You're the best podcast. So many good ones too.